The gender issue is difficult to see. So I shall tell a story to illustrate it.
When I was a teenager, boys who mowed lawns got paid five times as much as girls who watched babies. The girl babysitters got a dollar an hour, the boys got five bucks per lawn [which usually took less than an hour to mow]. Why? Are lawns more important than babies? Most people don't think so.
It happened because culturally [going back centuries] women's labor is marginalized, devalued, and unpaid. This keeps women marginalized, broke, and dependent on others.
Chris Williams and the other members of FanLib want to take the work of female fanfiction writers, give them nothing, and make millions off of it. Is that relevant to gender issues? Hell, yes.
As a teenager, I complained about only getting a buck for babysitting. A boy told me it was fair, though, because he had to pay for gas for the lawnmower, and the lawnmower, too. Except it wasn't his lawnmower. I think that boy grew up to be Chris Williams.
Leaving aside gender issues, however, FanLib is a raw deal for fanfiction writers, regardless of their sex.
"Chris Williams and the other members of FanLib want to take the work of female fanfiction writers, give them nothing, and make millions off of it. Is that relevant to gender issues? Hell, yes." Hell, no. They want to take the work of male fanfiction writer too, so gender don't matter. It's not because guys are the minority in the fandom that it means they are less concerned by women about Fanlib's project.
...
Or should I said that Fanlib's business is an heterosexual issue since most of the fanfiction writer are heterosexual? Hell, have you checked if fanlib's board are homoseual or heterosexual? Does homosexual writers less exploited than heterosexual writers since they're a minority?
"It's not because guys are the minority in the fandom that it means they are less concerned by women about Fanlib's project." less concerned THAN women. Me and my awfull english.-_-;
I don't think we disagree on this. I said it was a raw deal for everyone, regardless of gender.
Take, for example, nurses. [Covers bexone's eyes] For decades they were paid a wage they could barely live on. There were very few male nurses then because men could find higher paying jobs. Women, however, had few job options. They could be nurses, secretaries, teachers, or mommies.
Slowly, nurses gained better benefits because women had more job options, and no longer had to accept back-breaking jobs with low pay. That helped the male nurses, too, but it was incidental. I'm sure the male nurses were just as disgusted with getting paid peanuts as the women were. But that doesn't change the fact that nurses were treated abysmally because they were mostly women.
I don't think it matters, though, if FanLib's board is all men, or all women. Regardless of gender, they are rich people who want to get richer by using our work without compensation.
I kind of know this problem since I'm trying to work in an area were woman outnumbered men for decenies(not nurse but taking care of child, sorry but I don't know the english word for this profession...^^; ).
I agree there is a gender problem in the case of nurses, but it's harder for me to see an equivalent problem in fanfic. Nurse were a work outnumbered by women because of cultural prejudice stating that it was a work where women have their right place(Women are made for take care of child and not serious work and some other craps...). But it's hard for me to see the fanfiction writing like something where women outnumbered men for cultural prejudice. Why derivative writings are something which could interess women more than men? Why building stories about a pre-existant fictionnal universe is something seen like specifically feminine?It's something that I don't understood. Sure, there is, in fact, more women that men in the fandom, but I don't think that's something related to the nature of fanfiction by itself. That's why it's hard for me to picture that as a gender issue. My opinion about fanlib is perfectly summarized by your alst sentences. "I don't think it matters, though, if FanLib's board is all men, or all women. Regardless of gender, they are rich people who want to get richer by using our work without compensation."
I think (and that's my personal opinion) that more women are dissatisfied about shows they are watching/books they are reading when there are missing scenes, what ifs, or total ignoring of one of the characters. They are trying to show parts of a character's life they are interested in, but that has been ignored in canon. They write the characters so that they can better identify with them.
Men are less likely to do so. That may be because most shows/books automatically assume the male POV. You can see that in shows that shall be targeted for a male audience in the middle of the running of the show (like ST:Voy) you can expect an increase in explosions, fighting scenes, (female) cleavage and a decrease in plot, and (not only romantic) relationships. Plus: A formerly strong and independent woman becomes either bitchy or dependent on the men. So perhaps you can say women read and write more fanfiction because there are less shows and books made with them in mind. And because of the "cultural prejudice" that makes a lot of modern media targeted to men, women started to make fanfiction targeted for other women, something they themselves would like to read. At least from what I know about fandom history it seemed it started like that.
As for the FanLib-relevancy, I've given you the link to an excellent post explaining things on another comment.
Fo me, the fact that it was seven men was the first clue that there was no much truth to their "by fans, for fans" rhetoric. Imagine building up an archive with six friends for all the fans. And then tell me how the odds are that all six fellow fans would be male.
I agree that the Fanlib venture is a raw deal for fanfic writers, and to go with your story, I think it would be like paying any girl or boy who decided to babysit 5 times less than those who mow the lawn. Granted, the babysitting activity is more often entrusted to girls than boys (and vice-versa regarding lawn mowing), and it is degrading for that activity to be considered "lesser" than the other. It might be because it's an activity associated with girls, or mainly because they think it's an activity that demands less effort. (Having mowed my parents' lawn a couple of times, I know how hard it is to push a heavy lawnmower up a hill.) Now what your story says to me is that parents value their lawns more then babies, and that makes me sad. D:
But okay, yes, I do see your point, and agree that it's terribly unfair in itself. I'd recommend that the babysitters go and state that it's unfair to the payers and demand the same amount pointing out that it's babies' lives they are entrusting dammit. And that's what I hope the fanfic community is doing with Fanlib (& the bunch of IP laws that seem to be happening, ouch?).
How successful we will be, we shall have to see. *crossing fingers*
I don't deny the need to demand an equal treatment, I'm just not happy at people seeing "a bunch of men" and arbitrarily "biting their heads off" because of it. I'd much rather they "bite their heads" regarding what they're doing & their intentions, not what they are. Because seriously, the argument "You're being mean with me because I'm a girl" gets old, and I am a girl. "You're being mean" should suffice.
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life_wo_fanlib2007-05-25 08:15 pm
no subject
When I was a teenager, boys who mowed lawns got paid five times as much as girls who watched babies. The girl babysitters got a dollar an hour, the boys got five bucks per lawn [which usually took less than an hour to mow]. Why? Are lawns more important than babies? Most people don't think so.
It happened because culturally [going back centuries] women's labor is marginalized, devalued, and unpaid. This keeps women marginalized, broke, and dependent on others.
Chris Williams and the other members of FanLib want to take the work of female fanfiction writers, give them nothing, and make millions off of it. Is that relevant to gender issues? Hell, yes.
As a teenager, I complained about only getting a buck for babysitting. A boy told me it was fair, though, because he had to pay for gas for the lawnmower, and the lawnmower, too. Except it wasn't his lawnmower. I think that boy grew up to be Chris Williams.
Leaving aside gender issues, however, FanLib is a raw deal for fanfiction writers, regardless of their sex.
no subject
Hell, no.
They want to take the work of male fanfiction writer too, so gender don't matter.
It's not because guys are the minority in the fandom that it means they are less concerned by women about Fanlib's project.
...
Or should I said that Fanlib's business is an heterosexual issue since most of the fanfiction writer are heterosexual? Hell, have you checked if fanlib's board are homoseual or heterosexual? Does homosexual writers less exploited than heterosexual writers since they're a minority?
no subject
less concerned THAN women. Me and my awfull english.-_-;
no subject
Take, for example, nurses. [Covers bexone's eyes] For decades they were paid a wage they could barely live on. There were very few male nurses then because men could find higher paying jobs. Women, however, had few job options. They could be nurses, secretaries, teachers, or mommies.
Slowly, nurses gained better benefits because women had more job options, and no longer had to accept back-breaking jobs with low pay. That helped the male nurses, too, but it was incidental. I'm sure the male nurses were just as disgusted with getting paid peanuts as the women were. But that doesn't change the fact that nurses were treated abysmally because they were mostly women.
I don't think it matters, though, if FanLib's board is all men, or all women. Regardless of gender, they are rich people who want to get richer by using our work without compensation.
no subject
I agree there is a gender problem in the case of nurses, but it's harder for me to see an equivalent problem in fanfic.
Nurse were a work outnumbered by women because of cultural prejudice stating that it was a work where women have their right place(Women are made for take care of child and not serious work and some other craps...).
But it's hard for me to see the fanfiction writing like something where women outnumbered men for cultural prejudice.
Why derivative writings are something which could interess women more than men? Why building stories about a pre-existant fictionnal universe is something seen like specifically feminine?It's something that I don't understood.
Sure, there is, in fact, more women that men in the fandom, but I don't think that's something related to the nature of fanfiction by itself.
That's why it's hard for me to picture that as a gender issue. My opinion about fanlib is perfectly summarized by your alst sentences.
"I don't think it matters, though, if FanLib's board is all men, or all women. Regardless of gender, they are rich people who want to get richer by using our work without compensation."
no subject
Men are less likely to do so. That may be because most shows/books automatically assume the male POV. You can see that in shows that shall be targeted for a male audience in the middle of the running of the show (like ST:Voy) you can expect an increase in explosions, fighting scenes, (female) cleavage and a decrease in plot, and (not only romantic) relationships. Plus: A formerly strong and independent woman becomes either bitchy or dependent on the men. So perhaps you can say women read and write more fanfiction because there are less shows and books made with them in mind. And because of the "cultural prejudice" that makes a lot of modern media targeted to men, women started to make fanfiction targeted for other women, something they themselves would like to read. At least from what I know about fandom history it seemed it started like that.
As for the FanLib-relevancy, I've given you the link to an excellent post explaining things on another comment.
Fo me, the fact that it was seven men was the first clue that there was no much truth to their "by fans, for fans" rhetoric. Imagine building up an archive with six friends for all the fans. And then tell me how the odds are that all six fellow fans would be male.
no subject
Now what your story says to me is that parents value their lawns more then babies, and that makes me sad. D:
But okay, yes, I do see your point, and agree that it's terribly unfair in itself. I'd recommend that the babysitters go and state that it's unfair to the payers and demand the same amount
pointing out that it's babies' lives they are entrusting dammit. And that's what I hope the fanfic community is doing with Fanlib (& the bunch of IP laws that seem to be happening, ouch?).How successful we will be, we shall have to see. *crossing fingers*
I don't deny the need to demand an equal treatment, I'm just not happy at people seeing "a bunch of men" and arbitrarily "biting their heads off" because of it. I'd much rather they "bite their heads" regarding what they're doing & their intentions, not what they are.
Because seriously, the argument "You're being mean with me because I'm a girl" gets old, and I am a girl. "You're being mean" should suffice.