(no subject)
May. 26th, 2007 01:11 am![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
bookshop.livejournal.com posting in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png){kind=small}
life_wo_fanlibThis is what I'm about to post in response to Henry Jenkins's blog, but it's not letting me post it (probably because I'm a moron who hit Preview Post too many times? *scratches head*) so I'm going to repost it here.
I feel compelled to respond to what I think is at the heart of the previous comments. E.M. Pink wrote:
Ultimately, the fannish anxiety about what FanLib is trying to do is not something that an improved and modified FAQ and TOS can assuage. The reason for this is the essence of FanLib's marketing strategy, the essence of your (CW's) sales pitch to both fans and investors:
The term 'value proposition' encapsulates the real issue here. FanLib sees fanfic as a potential value. As seen through the gaze of FanLib, fanfic is something whose proposed worth has not been fully capitalized upon until a tangible transaction, a value exchange, has come about because of it - fans generating content for media conglomerates in exchange for a webchat or forum session with a scriptwriter, for example. Underlying all of FanLib's rhetoric about this exchange is the upsell - the push for fans to have their work acknowledged by someone higher along the hierarchy of creative production, by getting "closer" to the "talent behind" their favorite canons. The implication is that that hierarchy (imposed upon the fandom by outsiders) carries with it its own authority, its own implicit weighted system of value.
But that's not how fans see their experience, and it's not how fans view fanfic.
It's true that many fans might be excited about the prospect of a creator reading their fic; but many more would not be, and in fact it would make them uncomfortable, because what makes fanfic unique, what makes it fanfic, is that it operates outside the sphere of the media production machine that created its canon counterpart. It has an authority all its own.
FanLib, by its very nature, seeks to overturn that implicit authority. It implies that fanfic is not enough *on its own* to do the work of responding and commenting to the canon that inspires it. Several fans have written about their anxiety that "babyfans" coming to FanLib for the first time would gain a narrow perception that fanfic is meant to be a stepping stone to achieving a connection to a media distributor, the "creative talent behind" the canon. This kind of fanfic would not have its own inherent authority, because it would be operating within a superimposed, rather than an autonomous, self-and-communally-created, value system.
That prospect deeply troubles me, and I'm not alone.
It may be inevitable that fanfic is going to be commodified in this way, that FanLib is capitalizing on an impending technology wave that will impose a capitalist value upon the production of fanfic no matter what.
But that day will be gentler, and fans will be assimilated more easily into this new way of thinking about their writing, if we have the assurance that those seeking to commodify fanfic respect and value fanfic, not for its potential value, not for its "value proposition," but for its current value. For its value as something that stands outside of the media and publishing conglomerates that would attempt to reconcile with it.
FanLib says that it can be an agent of reconciliation in this process, but until FanLib firmly acknowledges that fanfic is already a valuable genre, with its own conventions and its own inherent value and its own inherent authority as a literary text, FanLib will not be able to convince uneasy and wary fans that by wanting to turn that genre into a commodifiable product, it has their best interests at heart.
Likewise, until the creators of FanLib acknowledge that fans have an authority all their own, rather than one imposed upon them via academic or literary or commercial channels - until it admits that fans and no one else, including the FanLib board, are the very best experts on fanfic, fans will continue to resist it.
What most fans really want is not to be hooked up with the show's writers or our favorite novelist. We don't want "the opportunity to be recognized and discovered by a wider audience and by [your] media partners."
What we want is to be respected for what we already are, and have our work valued in the fan community and context in which it was created. In many cases, you can't pull fic out of that original context without embarrassing everyone involved, because that fic is so entirely a product of the particular, fan-communal, context in which it was based.
FanLib seeks to pull fanfic out of that context and into a new, commercial, value-exchange-based context. I'm not saying such a feat is impossible. But FanLib will have an extremely hard time succeeding unless it *really* understands that it is essentially proposing to fix something that was never broken. To the vast majority of fans, you are attempting to bring our product, fanfic, to fruition, when to us, it's already been brung.
Fandom is its own reward - an autonomous space with its own inherent value systems and hierarchies that FanLib's current proposition would serve to disrupt rather than consolidate within a larger sphere.
FanLib does appear, with this interview and the modified legalese, to be trying to head in the right direction and work with fans - but so far, I believe that you have yet to take the most crucial step: to understand and acknowledge fans as their own authorities, and fanfic as its own authentic literary genre, with elements that cannot, and should not, be assimilated into a larger cultural context - especially and including a market-based one.
I feel compelled to respond to what I think is at the heart of the previous comments. E.M. Pink wrote:
I think back to how you proclaim our questioning your not answering us and choosing instead to answer to a man you perceive as having authority (over us?
Ultimately, the fannish anxiety about what FanLib is trying to do is not something that an improved and modified FAQ and TOS can assuage. The reason for this is the essence of FanLib's marketing strategy, the essence of your (CW's) sales pitch to both fans and investors:
The value proposition for fans is a free venue where they can pursue their passion by creating, showcasing, reading, reviewing, sharing, archiving, discovering stories, and by participating in fun events in a community with similar interests. For those that are interested, they can also get closer to the talent behind their favorite fandoms through official special events we create with media companies.... The value proposition for media companies and publishers is to connect, engage, and entertain fans of their media properties in a new online storytelling environment.
The term 'value proposition' encapsulates the real issue here. FanLib sees fanfic as a potential value. As seen through the gaze of FanLib, fanfic is something whose proposed worth has not been fully capitalized upon until a tangible transaction, a value exchange, has come about because of it - fans generating content for media conglomerates in exchange for a webchat or forum session with a scriptwriter, for example. Underlying all of FanLib's rhetoric about this exchange is the upsell - the push for fans to have their work acknowledged by someone higher along the hierarchy of creative production, by getting "closer" to the "talent behind" their favorite canons. The implication is that that hierarchy (imposed upon the fandom by outsiders) carries with it its own authority, its own implicit weighted system of value.
But that's not how fans see their experience, and it's not how fans view fanfic.
The value proposition for fans is a free venue where they can pursue their passion by creating, showcasing, reading, reviewing, sharing, archiving, discovering stories, and by participating in fun events in a community with similar interests.Mr. Williams, fans already have that. Only they have it within an autonomous arena where the act of posting a fanfic is its own best end - no upsell needed.
It's true that many fans might be excited about the prospect of a creator reading their fic; but many more would not be, and in fact it would make them uncomfortable, because what makes fanfic unique, what makes it fanfic, is that it operates outside the sphere of the media production machine that created its canon counterpart. It has an authority all its own.
FanLib, by its very nature, seeks to overturn that implicit authority. It implies that fanfic is not enough *on its own* to do the work of responding and commenting to the canon that inspires it. Several fans have written about their anxiety that "babyfans" coming to FanLib for the first time would gain a narrow perception that fanfic is meant to be a stepping stone to achieving a connection to a media distributor, the "creative talent behind" the canon. This kind of fanfic would not have its own inherent authority, because it would be operating within a superimposed, rather than an autonomous, self-and-communally-created, value system.
That prospect deeply troubles me, and I'm not alone.
It may be inevitable that fanfic is going to be commodified in this way, that FanLib is capitalizing on an impending technology wave that will impose a capitalist value upon the production of fanfic no matter what.
But that day will be gentler, and fans will be assimilated more easily into this new way of thinking about their writing, if we have the assurance that those seeking to commodify fanfic respect and value fanfic, not for its potential value, not for its "value proposition," but for its current value. For its value as something that stands outside of the media and publishing conglomerates that would attempt to reconcile with it.
FanLib says that it can be an agent of reconciliation in this process, but until FanLib firmly acknowledges that fanfic is already a valuable genre, with its own conventions and its own inherent value and its own inherent authority as a literary text, FanLib will not be able to convince uneasy and wary fans that by wanting to turn that genre into a commodifiable product, it has their best interests at heart.
Likewise, until the creators of FanLib acknowledge that fans have an authority all their own, rather than one imposed upon them via academic or literary or commercial channels - until it admits that fans and no one else, including the FanLib board, are the very best experts on fanfic, fans will continue to resist it.
What most fans really want is not to be hooked up with the show's writers or our favorite novelist. We don't want "the opportunity to be recognized and discovered by a wider audience and by [your] media partners."
What we want is to be respected for what we already are, and have our work valued in the fan community and context in which it was created. In many cases, you can't pull fic out of that original context without embarrassing everyone involved, because that fic is so entirely a product of the particular, fan-communal, context in which it was based.
FanLib seeks to pull fanfic out of that context and into a new, commercial, value-exchange-based context. I'm not saying such a feat is impossible. But FanLib will have an extremely hard time succeeding unless it *really* understands that it is essentially proposing to fix something that was never broken. To the vast majority of fans, you are attempting to bring our product, fanfic, to fruition, when to us, it's already been brung.
Fandom is its own reward - an autonomous space with its own inherent value systems and hierarchies that FanLib's current proposition would serve to disrupt rather than consolidate within a larger sphere.
FanLib does appear, with this interview and the modified legalese, to be trying to head in the right direction and work with fans - but so far, I believe that you have yet to take the most crucial step: to understand and acknowledge fans as their own authorities, and fanfic as its own authentic literary genre, with elements that cannot, and should not, be assimilated into a larger cultural context - especially and including a market-based one.
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2007-05-26 05:21 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-05-26 05:46 am (UTC)I've already been emailing with him back and forth tonight, tangentially about fanlib, so I'd feel a little sheepish emailing him my long spam. It did get submitted supposedly after a try or two, so hopefully it will show up. If not, I will just try tomorrow. :D
no subject
Date: 2007-05-26 08:01 am (UTC)FanLib seeks to pull fanfic out of that context and into a new, commercial, value-exchange-based context. I'm not saying such a feat is impossible. But FanLib will have an extremely hard time succeeding unless it *really* understands that it is essentially proposing to fix something that was never broken. To the vast majority of fans, you are attempting to bring our product, fanfic, to fruition, when to us, it's already been brung.
We write because we love a show/book/comic etc. The work (and of course feedback, which is horribly addictive) is its own reward.
no subject
Date: 2007-05-26 05:50 am (UTC)My comment, for people who want to read it:
In addition to the comments, something that was not addressed in the answers was whether or not a site like FanLib makes it more likely for a copyright/IP owner to take action.
For instance, see comments from John Scalzi (http://ficlets.com/blog/entry/corporatized_fan_fiction):
I�m willing to look the other way for fans, who are just enjoying themselves and not bothering to try to do anything other than have fun. I�m less inclined to look the other way when someone is trying to build a business a) off my fans without compensating them; b) off of my universe and characters without compensating me.
no problem!
Date: 2007-05-26 04:57 pm (UTC)http://web.mit.edu/cms/People/henry3/
I love scalzi's blog as well and noted that post (which went up not long after he posted on fanlib, I think (although I read it all through my LJ flist so time sometimes disappears in the timelessness of the net!).
Re: no problem!
Date: 2007-05-27 07:15 am (UTC)Re: no problem!
Date: 2007-05-27 10:28 pm (UTC)We just think we know what the machines are doing!
Re: no problem!
Date: 2007-05-28 07:32 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-05-26 05:22 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-05-26 05:48 am (UTC):D!
no subject
Date: 2007-05-26 05:24 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-05-26 05:29 am (UTC)They need us to need them; they need fandom to be lacking something that only they can provide. But there isn't anything they can offer us that we can't do for ourselves, except maybe a "connection" with the creators of shows like Ghost Whisperer and Star Trek, which... heh. No thanks.
no subject
Date: 2007-05-26 05:41 am (UTC)I agree, but I think I'd be satisfied with them paying more attention to their fan advisory board, and especially in terms of rethinking their content filters. They can also change the way they market and represent fanfic to their investors - less as a commodifiable, mutable entity to be shaped at the whims of the investors, and more as a sort of participatory archive of a largely predefined body of work. That would, of course, depend upon the kind of fic they got posted there, which would also probably defend on their filters, haha. So, eh. You know, if they even think about this stuff more seriously, I'd consider it a huge accomplishment.
no subject
Date: 2007-05-26 06:33 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-05-26 07:04 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-05-26 07:28 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-05-26 10:49 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-05-26 11:16 am (UTC)IAWTC. The model is fundamentally broken and the main problem with it doesn't even lie in the docs.
Plus, they just keep making a bunch of side faux pas. I feel like, if you know, before getting investors and building this whole thing, what if they maybe lurked for a few weeks?
no subject
Date: 2007-05-26 03:15 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-05-26 04:18 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-05-29 10:01 am (UTC)Value: yes, already realized ("real", heh; but it is!) and contextual, too - very good point there.
Too stupid at this hour to say more, but - Word.