Mythology about people who don't like FanLib

[scarah2.livejournal.com]

So the ruckus forum thread got bumped again, and the newer posts in it represents one of the more irritating fallacies about anyone who has a problem with FanLib.

I too am puzzled by all the venom and brouhaha. TPTB know that in all except the most egregious cases (few and far between) fanfic actually boosts interest in their "product" be it films, tv series, etc and even extends the life of those that are no longer in production. Fanfic writers buy dvd's, novelizations, and attend cons and all of those support fandoms and of course benefit TPTB. High/low profile is a myth anyway... if you can Google for fan fic communities so can Sony and CBS, and Paramount etc.

Of course they can. I don't think anyone believes otherwise. So far, most IP holders have been pretty cool about their stuff getting ficced. They can afford this luxury, since no one's really been you know, throwing investor dollars at promoting the fic and/or shoving it in the creators' faces, which are pretty much the stated goals of FanLib. No one thinks other archives are somehow invisible from TPTB. What concerns many of us is the possible upset of this delicate symbiosis that's worked so well for so long.

I'm not sure how the cooperation between Fanlib and CBS came about but it was kind of like inviting the neighbors to your party to avoid complaints, win/win.

To take this analogy a step further, what if the neighbors get to your party and discover you have naked posters of them hanging in your bathroom? Remember folks, FanLib allows adult stories. And the biggest body of stories there are based on the work of a creator who's said publicly she doesn't appreciate the hard stuff all too much.

I just don't understand the uproar. Fanlib would be shut down already if TPTB had generic fanfic-oriented copyright concerns. I say relax and enjoy!

One more time: FanLib is trying to invent itself as something that is not just another archive. It's not "generic fanfic-oriented copyright concerns" that I think is worrying anyone, except as they may or may not be wielded as leverage once the ball of our very specific FanLib based concerns has dropped.

Next a mod post from the ever-logical bryson:
I have a kind of opinion about this. Seeing the uproar from many fanfiction communities, such as LiveJournal, has given me the impression that they have literally been under a rock for the past decade. Everyone is aware of what goes on here - writing stories based upon literary properties - and yet those who have been doing it for this long seem to believe they have a special place in the internet that is untouchable and unseen.

Kinda silly.

Yes, that's totally it. We believe that TPTB all have magical Net Nanny on their computers which protects us on every site but FanLib. I don't even know what to say about this.

Anything on the web can be found if someone knows where to look. But you're right, given the overwhelming majority of women writing it, TPTB may not have done their homework, or perhaps they're trying to encourage more guys to write

TPTB at FanLib itself? I hope that's what he means.

Blah blah, more bryson having to point out he's male, then another sexist comment to, I guess... punish the others for making him point that out? I just don't know.

Comments

[melyanna.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure how the cooperation between Fanlib and CBS came about but it was kind of like inviting the neighbors to your party to avoid complaints, win/win.

No, it's called "my brother's the head of CBS!"

What's really dumb about this is that network executives have a very short shelf life. The next guy running CBS may not be so... charitable.

Plus networks eat their own on a fairly regular basis.

[rojaji.livejournal.com]

typical guy. he doesn't even get why we're mad. has he even read any of the arguments put out there over the past month?

I'm getting the who-needs-to-listen-to-the-hysterical-females vibe over here. anyone else?

[elf]

Keep in mind, Bryson's profile says:

"Fanfiction is the perfect avenue for the budding writer. It presents a person with a pre-determined universe and fully fleshed out characters with which to take and build upon in new ways without doing the excessive work involved with "world-building" as I call it."

Fanfic is writing practice, as far as he's concerned. *Really good* writers aren't writing fanfic; they're writing original stuff. They're doing the "excessive work" of worldbuilding... fanfic is for people too lazy or inexperienced to write good original stories.

And if TPTB believed that, the fanarchives would be safe. If they never question the idea that fanfic is "practice," they won't bother trying to shut down archives, even if they go after a few individuals. (Like Ann Rice's C&D orders, they'd be aimed at people who "stepped over the lines," rather than at the community that hosts and encourages fanfic.)

The Fanlib staff are very set in their belief that fanfic is a hobby for inexperienced, wannabe-pro writers. That the only reason for writing fanfic is either to get practice for "real" writing, or as self-indulgence... mental masturbation.

No awareness at all that there are readers who prefer fanfic to canon, nor that some very solid pro writers find fanfic a challenging test for their creativity, nor that fanficcers build collaborative worlds through fanon.

And, of course, "fanfic is good for sales; why would anyone object to it?" A lack of experience with K/S BDSM stories, lack of awareness of HP non-con chan incest stories.

*note to self: get on that serious H/C Pink guy/Blue guy slash; I wanna see if they'll let it stay up.*

[scarah2.livejournal.com]

Yeah, that's a good point, I guess that's the structure in which this reasoning can exist.

But then there's this:

And, of course, "fanfic is good for sales; why would anyone object to it?" A lack of experience with K/S BDSM stories, lack of awareness of HP non-con chan incest stories.

But they allow adult rated stuff. Do they not know the type of submissions they might get? Or might already have? Hell, maybe they're already removing stories. The uprating of the bible stories seems to suggest a certain naivete in that area.

*note to self: get on that serious H/C Pink guy/Blue guy slash; I wanna see if they'll let it stay up.*

LOL!

[angiepen.livejournal.com]

I love that he's sneering at us for being out of touch, but that he himself is sufficiently out of touch (or just enough of a newbie) that he seems to think he invented the term "worldbuilding" -- "world-building" as I call it. [bemused smile] Wow, I'm sure the SF community, at the very least, would just love to know whom to thank for that. [eyeroll]

Angie

[stewardess.livejournal.com]

Remember when I said that FanLib's plan is to shove fanfiction into the open (http://stewardess.livejournal.com/256539.html), because it will ultimately benefit them no matter what the result is?

Interesting to hear a casual volunteer like Bryson echoing that.

It's also interesting that FanLib keeps re-hashing the non-issue of visibility and never addresses the real problem, profiting off an IP holder's work. The only defense they have is, "Fanfiction.net is doing it."

My god FanLib sucks.

[stewardess.livejournal.com]

P.S. I created a new tag: FanLib vs Fandom. It happens a lot.

[scarah2.livejournal.com]

I remember that now, it's probably true.

It's pushing my suspension of disbelief that even someone with the clear powers of intuition that bryson has, could honestly think that our problem is "FanLib took our power of being invisible!"

I just keep wondering if there's some sort of staff/volunteer guideline like, "Just act deliberately obtuse. Take a small fragment of someone's question and redirect the whole discussion to be about that fragment. If that fails, just mention ff.net. This will work, because they all love to hate ff.net."

irvine_kinneas asked a couple of times point blank for someone to provide any sort of backup for the common claim that ff.net operates at a profit, and got banned for his trouble.

[stewardess.livejournal.com]

irvine_kinneas asked a couple of times point blank for someone to provide any sort of backup for the common claim that ff.net operates at a profit, and got banned for his trouble.

Oh for fuck's sake.

*glowers*

[aristastarfyr.livejournal.com]

hmmmmmm... Me thinks there should be fan fic about the creation of fanlib and the strikethrough and all the other BS in their original fanfic section. Yes.

[highlander_ii]

I was going to say that I'm amused that fanlib picked PHPboards for their forum... if they're gonna be a 'profitable' venture, wouldn't it make more sense to buy a license for a vB board and get rid of the additional ads and, *gasp* make it match their ugly website?

I am *so* in a mood today...

[scarah2.livejournal.com]

Actually I think it is JForum (http://www.jforum.net/) which runs on Java instead of PHP but still has the same graphics and SubSilver skin of phpBB circa 2001.

[highlander_ii]

Could be.

If that's the case - aren't they supposed to keep the forum TM / copyright details at the bottom of the pages, etc? Since I *know* FanLib didn't design that forum software, nor the SubSilver skin (which also requires you to keep the TM / copyright info).

[scarah2.livejournal.com]

I know with phpBB they're like sure you can take the credits off, just don't ever ask for support in our forums or you'll be flamed into oblivion.

JForum doesn't even have a copyright at the bottom of their own support forums, so I don't know what their deal is. I'm sure SubSilver needed a complete rewrite to run on theirs, but you know those are the same graphics.

[highlander_ii]

Maybe it's just me seeing it as 'rude' to attribute work to 'me' that isn't mine - that old adage of 'give credit where credit is due' and that whole 'don't steal' principle - guess those were just learned t'me better'n they was t'FanLib folk. Ya reckon? *g*

[scarah2.livejournal.com]

Yeah, but if they just got the download from JForums and the SubSilver graphics are already uncredited in the download, I'd tend to rest more of the responsibility with JForums.

[highlander_ii]

This... sadly, is also true.

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

My issues with FanLib are this --

FanLib: Give us your fanfiction so we can make money off of it.

Icarus: Pourquoi? Not unless you pay me for my hard work and the original copyright holders for theirs.

FanLib: But ff.net rips you both off, too, making cash money! We're just open about it. And-and-- the makers of pens make money from you when you write fanfiction in your notebook. Lots and lots of people make money off fanfiction. So give us your fanfiction.

Icarus: Give me a reason to upload my stories to your site.

FanLib: We have a great site!

Icarus: Your site is gaudy and difficult to use.

FanLib: We love fanfiction!

Icarus: Your marketing brochure is insulting to fanfiction writers, characterizing them as dumb slackers who need to be carefully controlled. Your invitation letter insulted my intelligence.

You don't love fanfiction, you want to make money off of it.

FanLib: We're great people!

Icarus: Your CEO spammed us with angry comments. So, no, I'm not buying that either.

Can you give me even one reason to upload my stories to your site?

FanLib: You can get closer to the talent behind the shows.

Icarus: The talent behind my shows run personal blogs, answer my questions, and show up at conventions. Fans have helped market their off-side ventures. I see no evidence that you can surpass that close association.

I see only a couple fandoms that have an official association with FanLib whatsoever, and then only with your contests.

Nope, you're not bringing us closer.

FanLib: We offer an opportunity to get published!

Icarus: Through your contests. Not your fanfiction site. And only the Grand Prize Winner gets writing credit for a screenplay they write after the fact, with all rights to it signed away.

I think your contests are a raw deal. And they have nothing to do with the fanfiction.

So far you have nothing to offer me. Any other reasons for me to upload my stories?

FanLib: We provide a community for fanfiction writers.

Icarus: I'm part of a community of 40,000 active fanfiction writers, with a broader reach of about 80,000 fanfiction fans on LJ. I'm also tied to 7,000 Stargate Atlantis readers on their archive, and roughly 50,000 Harry Potter readers on Fiction Alley. Before FanLib, about 800 people had friended my LJ, almost entirely for the stories and recs.

You don't seem to realize that these community ties are more valuable to you than my fanfiction. This is the traffic that you need to make a profit.

By the way, this is the community that you pissed off by spamming them with angry comments.



Did I miss anything? Was there any good reason for me to post there? Was there an offer by FanLib or answer that I've forgotten? Did FanLib offer anything that I didn't hear about?

Icarus

[scarah2.livejournal.com]

T-shirts!

*cracks up*

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

Riiiiight. Forgot the t-shirt.

I could use it to wash the car.